Hello. New person here paper trading away and very often getting into trades at the top/bottom of a move - as seen by these two absolutely wonderful trades at the yellow lines. First was a long: at blue dot sleeping alligator, I set pending buy stop 3 pips above AIMS level - which would bring price above purple line with AO very close to 0 and rising. When trade was taken, candle had broken above blue dot's AIMS level but no way of knowing it was going to create a new resistance level and new AIMS box at its high.
Second yellow line was a short: at red dot open alligator, I set pending sell 1 pip below AIMS level with price close to fresh break of AO and descending. Again when trade was taken, candle had broken below red dot's AIMS level but no way of knowing it was going to create a new support level and new AIMS level at its low.
If someone could some input on what I'm doing right and wrong I would so appreciate it. Losing $ (paper still) because I take more losers than winners like the two above. Finding it all frustrating and questioning my ability to want what the market wants with gratitude!
Thanks.
PB's Journal
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petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
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immy
- Founder
- Posts: 9654
- Joined: 22 Nov 2010, 16:46
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Hello,
Congratulations on starting your journal. You have taken a quantum leap towards success. Now the next thing is consistently paper trade and keep posting. I will be watching and commenting. If you really want to learn to trade forex you must continue. With patience and discipline you will learn to understand and implement the setup. AS for the above two trades, I'd say go to the EBook section and download the Flow Chart. IT should help you understand the rules better. as You are not doing anything wrong. In fact in forex you can never do anything wrong. But as long as you do something that is consistent you can be profitable. The first trade we all took and paid rent. The second trade we did not take since AO was still. We need Fresh cross of zero line and break of aims. Another thing was that M5 aims levels were too close.
cheers
Congratulations on starting your journal. You have taken a quantum leap towards success. Now the next thing is consistently paper trade and keep posting. I will be watching and commenting. If you really want to learn to trade forex you must continue. With patience and discipline you will learn to understand and implement the setup. AS for the above two trades, I'd say go to the EBook section and download the Flow Chart. IT should help you understand the rules better. as You are not doing anything wrong. In fact in forex you can never do anything wrong. But as long as you do something that is consistent you can be profitable. The first trade we all took and paid rent. The second trade we did not take since AO was still. We need Fresh cross of zero line and break of aims. Another thing was that M5 aims levels were too close.
cheers
What is the Secret of Successful Trading?
The Consistent Pursuit of DS1
The thing that makes me money in trading is when I "Objectively Follow my Trading Plan".
I understand that I can't catch all the moves or all the signals but my objective is to catch THE VALID SIGNALS & ONLY the Valid Signals.
My Deathbed Advice "5:1 Reward to Risk Ratio".
Yo, banana boy!
The Consistent Pursuit of DS1
The thing that makes me money in trading is when I "Objectively Follow my Trading Plan".
I understand that I can't catch all the moves or all the signals but my objective is to catch THE VALID SIGNALS & ONLY the Valid Signals.
My Deathbed Advice "5:1 Reward to Risk Ratio".
Yo, banana boy!
-
petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Thank you for your supportive words, Imran. It really helped to know that I did 'good' on the first trade even tho' it was a rent payment.
Your comments on my second trade gave rise to some questions...
In the ebook, on pages 21 and 38 there are examples of trades taken just before a cross of AO. Is this because the trend was in place and the ZL was so close? (I do definitely see the error of my trade re the position of the AO vs when the break happened)...
You mentioned that M5 support was too close to my trade (should have waited for a break of M5). How close is too close? And when can you go ahead and take the trade based on M1 break? 3 pips, 5 pips...Or is it just something one eventually 'sees' and recognizes?
Often when you set a pending trade, you don't know if a fresh cross of AO will happen and your trade can get triggered without the cross. So, how do you handle not knowing if there will be a cross at the time of the trade? Is this where the 'close to Z/L' comes in - at the dot and not at the actual trade?
The ebook says beginners should use an open alligator on M5 to determine the trend. How does this fit in with trading away from the purple line on M1 and also, does the M5 AO have anything to do with the trend - ie if it's in the process of reversal but not yet at ZL?
In cases where the AO is straddling the ZL for a number of bars - do we care if the break came a 'while' ago or are we only concerned with the fresh break, no matter how long ago it happened as long as we are still close to ZL?
As I mentioned in my first post, it happens very often that my trades are taken at a break of the current AIMS box but that candle proves to be the top or bottom of a new AIMS box therefore becoming support or resistance instead of a breakout. Is that normal?
Thank you for your post to newbie suggesting a no trading holiday. My husband has been telling me that that's what I should do. So, yes, it will be good, quiet time to read, study, meditate and put together some solid rules hopefully without wondering if they're good or not... Not to mention enjoy the hols!
Thank you again Imran for taking the time to clear some of the fuzzies.
Wonderful holiday to you and yours and to all AIMSters and your families.
Your comments on my second trade gave rise to some questions...
In the ebook, on pages 21 and 38 there are examples of trades taken just before a cross of AO. Is this because the trend was in place and the ZL was so close? (I do definitely see the error of my trade re the position of the AO vs when the break happened)...
You mentioned that M5 support was too close to my trade (should have waited for a break of M5). How close is too close? And when can you go ahead and take the trade based on M1 break? 3 pips, 5 pips...Or is it just something one eventually 'sees' and recognizes?
Often when you set a pending trade, you don't know if a fresh cross of AO will happen and your trade can get triggered without the cross. So, how do you handle not knowing if there will be a cross at the time of the trade? Is this where the 'close to Z/L' comes in - at the dot and not at the actual trade?
The ebook says beginners should use an open alligator on M5 to determine the trend. How does this fit in with trading away from the purple line on M1 and also, does the M5 AO have anything to do with the trend - ie if it's in the process of reversal but not yet at ZL?
In cases where the AO is straddling the ZL for a number of bars - do we care if the break came a 'while' ago or are we only concerned with the fresh break, no matter how long ago it happened as long as we are still close to ZL?
As I mentioned in my first post, it happens very often that my trades are taken at a break of the current AIMS box but that candle proves to be the top or bottom of a new AIMS box therefore becoming support or resistance instead of a breakout. Is that normal?
Thank you for your post to newbie suggesting a no trading holiday. My husband has been telling me that that's what I should do. So, yes, it will be good, quiet time to read, study, meditate and put together some solid rules hopefully without wondering if they're good or not... Not to mention enjoy the hols!
Thank you again Imran for taking the time to clear some of the fuzzies.
Wonderful holiday to you and yours and to all AIMSters and your families.
-
immy
- Founder
- Posts: 9654
- Joined: 22 Nov 2010, 16:46
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Hellow B! (hug)
Thats a lot of questions! But very good ones. I used to wonder about the same issues. I wanted concrete answers and I wanted to know what was about to happen. But in the end I had to settle with this. 50% of the time things will go your way. When you take a very good Setup only then there is a 50% chance it may go your way or not. Whether it goes your way or not (thats our opinion, otherwise it always goes its own way, because in markets there is no our way, its only the markets way haha) is NOT important. What's important is what you do when it does. Remember: to become a successful i.e. profitable trader you must Understand and Implement this principle: Your average Winner must be bigger than your average loser. E.g. If you never have a Rent payment more than 10pip (simple math I know) but your winners are around 15-20 pips. Now all you need is to maintain a success rate of 50% to be profitable. Its very easy to maintain a 50% success rate. but its not easy to maintain the average winner high or average rent as low as possible. Reason being the Immature Mind. A Trader Mind thinks exactly the opposite of a non-trader mind. Non-Trader Untrained Mind is Reactive - a Trained Mature Trader Mind is Pro-Active. Between Stimulus and Response is your freedom to choose! We must exercise that freedom while trading.
Your Questions: The example on page 21: Trade is taken long after AO remained red for considerable amount of time. but price still did not move much. Previous peak was Green which means the previous impulse have showed a momentum to the upside, these red bars of AO proved to be corrective sideways market. after it created two peaks price was about to break above again. Entry on this occassion came a bit early than the proper cross of ZL. But the rest of the stuff was all in its place. Sorry thats the only Setup one I have seen on the dailies in the near past otherwise I would have chosen a better example haha.
)
Q2: You mentioned that M5 support was too close to my trade (should have waited for a break of M5). How close is too close? And when can you go ahead and take the trade based on M1 break? 3 pips, 5 pips...Or is it just something one eventually 'sees' and recognizes?
Ans: The later part of the question is what I agree with more, but here is a guideline. if M5 AIMS Level is lesss than 5 pips i'd ratehr take the m5 aims level. It will depend on, when I do take the m5 aims level would my exit be still considered as close to exit point, ie.e Rule 3? So, another question I hear you ask, How far is too far for exit? Well if you put your stop loss based on 15pips and did your money management on 15pips but your setup requires you to put a Stop loss of 20 pips, your exit is far. I dont like anything that requires larger than 10pips stop loss. or 15 max.
Q3: Often when you set a pending trade, you don't know if a fresh cross of AO will happen and your trade can get triggered without the cross. So, how do you handle not knowing if there will be a cross at the time of the trade? Is this where the 'close to Z/L' comes in - at the dot and not at the actual trade?
Ans: YES. :-bd We never know what's going to happen next but as long as our Setup rules are mostly met we are good to go. With experience, practice, patience and discipline you should achieve the state of "Knowing without knowing how your know". The Zone. That is our ultimate goal.
Q4: The ebook says beginners should use an open alligator on M5 to determine the trend. How does this fit in with trading away from the purple line on M1 and also, does the M5 AO have anything to do with the trend - ie if it's in the process of reversal but not yet at ZL?
Ans: The purple on m1 is the Red line (ish) of the M5 Alligator. However to fully appreciate the situation a look at m5 is often more meaningful than just looking a the purple. It is specially true for choppy markets. If you don't display purple on m5 its ok but I like to see similar charts. However I will not stop trading if price is going towards purple on m5. But it does tell me that I might be either in choppy sideways market or trading a corrective wave. The M5 AO and the M1 AO are the same things. M1 AO is the expanded M5 AO. When you see 10 AO bars on m5 they translate into 50 AO bars on m1. We don't trade m1 or m5 we trade EURUSD! M1 or M5 are zoom levels of looking at the same thing. Its like asking, does the branch has anything to do with the leaves?
Q5: As I mentioned in my first post, it happens very often that my trades are taken at a break of the current AIMS box but that candle proves to be the top or bottom of a new AIMS box therefore becoming support or resistance instead of a breakout. Is that normal?
Ans: Whether its normal or not the most important thing here is , is this what you believe? How often has it occurred? How many trades have you based this on? etc etc. Questions questions.... At least a 100 trades must be taken to fully have an idea of how the system and YOU get along?
I wish you too have a wonderful holiday and enjoy your time to the fullest! The most important Purpose of Our Life is to Live a Life of Joy and Happinesss! This must never be compromised! Never Ever! If you want to be Happy tomorrow and now, you have to "choose" to be happy! IMHO> :-j
Kind Regards
Immy
Thats a lot of questions! But very good ones. I used to wonder about the same issues. I wanted concrete answers and I wanted to know what was about to happen. But in the end I had to settle with this. 50% of the time things will go your way. When you take a very good Setup only then there is a 50% chance it may go your way or not. Whether it goes your way or not (thats our opinion, otherwise it always goes its own way, because in markets there is no our way, its only the markets way haha) is NOT important. What's important is what you do when it does. Remember: to become a successful i.e. profitable trader you must Understand and Implement this principle: Your average Winner must be bigger than your average loser. E.g. If you never have a Rent payment more than 10pip (simple math I know) but your winners are around 15-20 pips. Now all you need is to maintain a success rate of 50% to be profitable. Its very easy to maintain a 50% success rate. but its not easy to maintain the average winner high or average rent as low as possible. Reason being the Immature Mind. A Trader Mind thinks exactly the opposite of a non-trader mind. Non-Trader Untrained Mind is Reactive - a Trained Mature Trader Mind is Pro-Active. Between Stimulus and Response is your freedom to choose! We must exercise that freedom while trading.
Your Questions: The example on page 21: Trade is taken long after AO remained red for considerable amount of time. but price still did not move much. Previous peak was Green which means the previous impulse have showed a momentum to the upside, these red bars of AO proved to be corrective sideways market. after it created two peaks price was about to break above again. Entry on this occassion came a bit early than the proper cross of ZL. But the rest of the stuff was all in its place. Sorry thats the only Setup one I have seen on the dailies in the near past otherwise I would have chosen a better example haha.
) Q2: You mentioned that M5 support was too close to my trade (should have waited for a break of M5). How close is too close? And when can you go ahead and take the trade based on M1 break? 3 pips, 5 pips...Or is it just something one eventually 'sees' and recognizes?
Ans: The later part of the question is what I agree with more, but here is a guideline. if M5 AIMS Level is lesss than 5 pips i'd ratehr take the m5 aims level. It will depend on, when I do take the m5 aims level would my exit be still considered as close to exit point, ie.e Rule 3? So, another question I hear you ask, How far is too far for exit? Well if you put your stop loss based on 15pips and did your money management on 15pips but your setup requires you to put a Stop loss of 20 pips, your exit is far. I dont like anything that requires larger than 10pips stop loss. or 15 max.
Q3: Often when you set a pending trade, you don't know if a fresh cross of AO will happen and your trade can get triggered without the cross. So, how do you handle not knowing if there will be a cross at the time of the trade? Is this where the 'close to Z/L' comes in - at the dot and not at the actual trade?
Ans: YES. :-bd We never know what's going to happen next but as long as our Setup rules are mostly met we are good to go. With experience, practice, patience and discipline you should achieve the state of "Knowing without knowing how your know". The Zone. That is our ultimate goal.
Q4: The ebook says beginners should use an open alligator on M5 to determine the trend. How does this fit in with trading away from the purple line on M1 and also, does the M5 AO have anything to do with the trend - ie if it's in the process of reversal but not yet at ZL?
Ans: The purple on m1 is the Red line (ish) of the M5 Alligator. However to fully appreciate the situation a look at m5 is often more meaningful than just looking a the purple. It is specially true for choppy markets. If you don't display purple on m5 its ok but I like to see similar charts. However I will not stop trading if price is going towards purple on m5. But it does tell me that I might be either in choppy sideways market or trading a corrective wave. The M5 AO and the M1 AO are the same things. M1 AO is the expanded M5 AO. When you see 10 AO bars on m5 they translate into 50 AO bars on m1. We don't trade m1 or m5 we trade EURUSD! M1 or M5 are zoom levels of looking at the same thing. Its like asking, does the branch has anything to do with the leaves?
Q5: As I mentioned in my first post, it happens very often that my trades are taken at a break of the current AIMS box but that candle proves to be the top or bottom of a new AIMS box therefore becoming support or resistance instead of a breakout. Is that normal?
Ans: Whether its normal or not the most important thing here is , is this what you believe? How often has it occurred? How many trades have you based this on? etc etc. Questions questions.... At least a 100 trades must be taken to fully have an idea of how the system and YOU get along?
I wish you too have a wonderful holiday and enjoy your time to the fullest! The most important Purpose of Our Life is to Live a Life of Joy and Happinesss! This must never be compromised! Never Ever! If you want to be Happy tomorrow and now, you have to "choose" to be happy! IMHO> :-j
Kind Regards
Immy
What is the Secret of Successful Trading?
The Consistent Pursuit of DS1
The thing that makes me money in trading is when I "Objectively Follow my Trading Plan".
I understand that I can't catch all the moves or all the signals but my objective is to catch THE VALID SIGNALS & ONLY the Valid Signals.
My Deathbed Advice "5:1 Reward to Risk Ratio".
Yo, banana boy!
The Consistent Pursuit of DS1
The thing that makes me money in trading is when I "Objectively Follow my Trading Plan".
I understand that I can't catch all the moves or all the signals but my objective is to catch THE VALID SIGNALS & ONLY the Valid Signals.
My Deathbed Advice "5:1 Reward to Risk Ratio".
Yo, banana boy!
-
petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Hello and Happy New Year!
New Year, New Opportunities....
I am getting a bit more confident and taking my trades in better places. I found today that I got in on some great moves down, but start to get nervous and close out the trades early. This comes from bad prior experiences of having a trade be slightly positive and then go negative in a nanosecond....
I've attached a chart with 2 trades. Both entries were on the same candle (21:30), 1st one at $1.27833 and 2nd at $1.27812. Closed the first one at 21:37 at $1.27783 and the second trade at 21:38 at $1.27781... Do you have any advice for steeling up the old nerves????
Thank you!
New Year, New Opportunities....
I am getting a bit more confident and taking my trades in better places. I found today that I got in on some great moves down, but start to get nervous and close out the trades early. This comes from bad prior experiences of having a trade be slightly positive and then go negative in a nanosecond....
I've attached a chart with 2 trades. Both entries were on the same candle (21:30), 1st one at $1.27833 and 2nd at $1.27812. Closed the first one at 21:37 at $1.27783 and the second trade at 21:38 at $1.27781... Do you have any advice for steeling up the old nerves????
Thank you!
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Grant
- Posts: 943
- Joined: 14 Aug 2011, 14:52
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Hi there,
i would say there are 2 ways of trying to steel your nerves....
1. Trade at a lot size that you dont care about, then once you have no problem letting trades run start increasing it to a max of 1% risk per trade or
2. Trade with your lot size at 1% and close half at say 10 pips and let the other half run until you either get to a predetermined target point or you have an exit signal....
i have never been a fan of option 2 but i know several very good/profitable traders that use it...
hope this helps
Grant
i would say there are 2 ways of trying to steel your nerves....
1. Trade at a lot size that you dont care about, then once you have no problem letting trades run start increasing it to a max of 1% risk per trade or
2. Trade with your lot size at 1% and close half at say 10 pips and let the other half run until you either get to a predetermined target point or you have an exit signal....
i have never been a fan of option 2 but i know several very good/profitable traders that use it...
hope this helps
Grant
success = patience + discipline - greed
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petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Thanks Grant!
For option 1, I have also found that if I go in with a smaller lot size (trading 1 lot at present), then I have a harder time getting out of a profitable trade because the $$$ aren't too wonderful. It's hard to look at the trade for the # of pips or % that you've made rather than the $ amount. But you are just talking training wheels aren't you?
I am finding that 90% of the problems that I'm encountering are psychological... Absolutely amazing discovery for me!
For option 1, I have also found that if I go in with a smaller lot size (trading 1 lot at present), then I have a harder time getting out of a profitable trade because the $$$ aren't too wonderful. It's hard to look at the trade for the # of pips or % that you've made rather than the $ amount. But you are just talking training wheels aren't you?
I am finding that 90% of the problems that I'm encountering are psychological... Absolutely amazing discovery for me!
-
Grant
- Posts: 943
- Joined: 14 Aug 2011, 14:52
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Unfortunately the psychological aspect of trading is just the pits to try and over come. Imran will tell you that when we first met i had exactly the same problem of not being able to let trades run. My limit was 10 pips before i broke out in cold sweats... lol
The only way i got over that was by watching charts, starting small and removing the terminal window from my screens. After a few weeks of watching the same patterns repeating over and over again and not being able to see the $ amount that each trade was at, i finally managed to let trades run until a valid exit signal....
With regard to the $$ amount not being good enough, remember the 8th wonder of the world : Compounding.
cheers
Grant
The only way i got over that was by watching charts, starting small and removing the terminal window from my screens. After a few weeks of watching the same patterns repeating over and over again and not being able to see the $ amount that each trade was at, i finally managed to let trades run until a valid exit signal....
With regard to the $$ amount not being good enough, remember the 8th wonder of the world : Compounding.
cheers
Grant
success = patience + discipline - greed
-
petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
Thanks again Grant. It SO MUCH helps when you know that you're not the only one experiencing something. I actually AM starting to see repeating patterns...!!!
Will try the smaller lot idea and see if that helps my psychological learning curve.
Will try the smaller lot idea and see if that helps my psychological learning curve.
-
petitbout
- Free Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 23:42
- 14
Re: PB's Journal
I am getting 'overloaded' by what to look for to take a trade. Sounds so silly to say when the Setups are so well defined, explicit and brief. BUT, here I am, just not sure. I'm unsure as to what to look for on M5 to take a setup on M1...
On my first trade, I took what I'm thinking is a Setup 2 on M1 (yellow line) at a break of M1 AIMS that was M1 resistance 3 previous times and resistance on M5. Both AO's were going up and since this is a Setup 2, I 'think' that there is more leeway as far as AO close to Z/L is concerned... Was this not a good trade because I fed the alligator on M5 and the M5 price was below the purple line? It looks like a better place for this trade would have been the 17:12 M1 candle? Altho' still under purple on M5 but price just above the alligator. Both timeframes closer to Z/L...
I am placing more losing trades than winners, which is making it rather difficult now to take trades, both from psychological point of view as well as the confusion of what to look for to define a good trade. eg. If you get a signal but you are near the day's high/low, do you step away from the trade? Does the M5 alligator need to be open in the M1 direction to take the M1 setup? Do you need to be trading away from purple on both M1 and M5?
On my second trade, I took an M1 Setup 1 at 17:52 at 1.27379 - 1 pip below the M5 AIMS level, and price below M1 purple line. AO close to Z/L and moving down on both timeframes.... Got stopped out for 7 pip loss at 18:10. Found myself questioning what to look for to take a trade and decided to post my trades here to get some help about where I'm going wrong and missed the downtrend that immediately followed my long stop out. This so highlights how I got into this trade at the end of a trend....Should I be taking into consideration where price is in relation to the day's high, purple and grey lines, the length (# of AIMS levels) of the current trend?
Also am very weak on wave counting - having a really tough time seeing these suckers... On the second trade, I thought I was trading into W1 on M1 - didn't think that prior AO green peak diverged from the one before it - but it did - ever so slightly... Is this a question of 'a divergence is a divergence is a divergence' no matter how slight????
Are the really small waves crossing back and forth over the Z/L abc corrections and is this even important to know?
Is there anyway to tell from the waves if price movement in the opposite direction is a correction (abc) or trend change? I know the ebook says that if you have trouble seeing/counting waves that trading away from purple and close to Z/L will get us into impulse waves...but I'm missing something(s) - many questions... Please help. Thank you.
On my first trade, I took what I'm thinking is a Setup 2 on M1 (yellow line) at a break of M1 AIMS that was M1 resistance 3 previous times and resistance on M5. Both AO's were going up and since this is a Setup 2, I 'think' that there is more leeway as far as AO close to Z/L is concerned... Was this not a good trade because I fed the alligator on M5 and the M5 price was below the purple line? It looks like a better place for this trade would have been the 17:12 M1 candle? Altho' still under purple on M5 but price just above the alligator. Both timeframes closer to Z/L...
I am placing more losing trades than winners, which is making it rather difficult now to take trades, both from psychological point of view as well as the confusion of what to look for to define a good trade. eg. If you get a signal but you are near the day's high/low, do you step away from the trade? Does the M5 alligator need to be open in the M1 direction to take the M1 setup? Do you need to be trading away from purple on both M1 and M5?
On my second trade, I took an M1 Setup 1 at 17:52 at 1.27379 - 1 pip below the M5 AIMS level, and price below M1 purple line. AO close to Z/L and moving down on both timeframes.... Got stopped out for 7 pip loss at 18:10. Found myself questioning what to look for to take a trade and decided to post my trades here to get some help about where I'm going wrong and missed the downtrend that immediately followed my long stop out. This so highlights how I got into this trade at the end of a trend....Should I be taking into consideration where price is in relation to the day's high, purple and grey lines, the length (# of AIMS levels) of the current trend?
Also am very weak on wave counting - having a really tough time seeing these suckers... On the second trade, I thought I was trading into W1 on M1 - didn't think that prior AO green peak diverged from the one before it - but it did - ever so slightly... Is this a question of 'a divergence is a divergence is a divergence' no matter how slight????
Are the really small waves crossing back and forth over the Z/L abc corrections and is this even important to know?
Is there anyway to tell from the waves if price movement in the opposite direction is a correction (abc) or trend change? I know the ebook says that if you have trouble seeing/counting waves that trading away from purple and close to Z/L will get us into impulse waves...but I'm missing something(s) - many questions... Please help. Thank you.
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